This well written. The clarity makes it all the more challenging in the best way. These ideas are convicting and inspirational as I grapple with human anthropology in the light of and contrast to what modern American culture teaches by osmosis and marketing. I want to fulfill my own telos as a man and become that for which I was created. Lay or ordained, our telos seems the same: to love God and neighbor perfectly, to build up the Kingdom of God, and to prepare for eternal life. Your emphasis on business and family as preparation for ruling in the eternal state is thought provoking. What shapes your interpretation of the parables and what weight would you give to past “elders” of the church in their interpretation of the same?
I think my interpretation of the parables is shaped by several perspectives, including reading scripture as a Story that has repeating themes throughout, as well as a deepening understanding of the spiritual realm that's woven into so much of scripture, but is often overlooked or completely missed.
And yes, I think giving credence to historically held positions is helpful to consider, but I don't take their thoughts as scripture because man's perspectives can change over time and they're not always accurate or correct. So it's helpful, but I don't stick to it if it doesn't line up.
Would it stand to reason, that if your reading / interpretation was the correct one, many former “elders” would have come to a similar conclusion and the historical record would reflect that? If not, how do you know if your reading is accurate / correct and not merely a product of the times?
I depend a great deal on the Holy Spirit’s leading (who leads us into all truth John 16:13) and the input from others (like you and those before us). It’s a dance between those voices. Sometimes my beliefs shift over time as I continue to wrestle through them, not always because I had something wrong before, but because my belief in one thing deepens over time, which influences how deeply I now believe something else.
Concerning the progression of scripture above toward the "one trajectory" as you put it... If, lets say, someone could demonstrate that zaqen at the city gate eventually became the Sanhedrin, would that cause you to question you assumption about trajectory? If the Holy Spirit has led folks before you concerning the meaning of the parable of the talents or what biblical fatherhood/ business ideals look like, and if your interpretation differs, why choose yours over theirs?
If there's consensus that I've erred, then I would submit to that, but overall, I can't speak for what the Holy Spirit is doing in others, whether that be today or hundreds of years ago. I can only follow His leading in my own life today the best I can. I've seen my own beliefs shift over time as He continues to work. I've seen that in you, too, which I respect. If we land at different places, is one of us wrong and the other right? I used to think it was as black and white as that, but now I see that the Spirit works in different people in different ways at different times. Maybe, in His timing, He'll bring me around to believe something that aligns more closely to what someone else already believes. Maybe I still currently believe something that He'll change in time (I hope so!). I think scripture is pretty clear on some essential non-negotiables, but there's a lot of other things in scripture that would take more than a lifetime to fully explore. I love learning from the people who have spent a lifetime exploring some of these things, but I still try to pay attention to what the Holy Spirit wants me to take away and wrestle with. Outside of the essential non-negotibles, it's more about wrestling with growth than it is about getting the correct answer and refusing to move from it.
Wondering if the Holy Spirit... leading "you" into all truth is you or ya'll. If it is Ya'll then perhaps having to wrestle every issue personally is like our kids having to figure out life without the help of their parents or community. If God gives us the Church, and the Holy Spirit has been leading her for all this time, maybe we can we can rely on her to help us know how to be men, husbands, and fathers. (and community leaders) Maybe we don't all have figure it out on our own like orphans, perpetually reinventing the wheel. I guess what I'm asking is why do you believe you have to figure this out yourself when you have 2k+ years of fathers /elders who've gone before you? Surely they left us some of their wisdom and what was revealed to them in their time?
hi Tim.. 😊
This well written. The clarity makes it all the more challenging in the best way. These ideas are convicting and inspirational as I grapple with human anthropology in the light of and contrast to what modern American culture teaches by osmosis and marketing. I want to fulfill my own telos as a man and become that for which I was created. Lay or ordained, our telos seems the same: to love God and neighbor perfectly, to build up the Kingdom of God, and to prepare for eternal life. Your emphasis on business and family as preparation for ruling in the eternal state is thought provoking. What shapes your interpretation of the parables and what weight would you give to past “elders” of the church in their interpretation of the same?
I think my interpretation of the parables is shaped by several perspectives, including reading scripture as a Story that has repeating themes throughout, as well as a deepening understanding of the spiritual realm that's woven into so much of scripture, but is often overlooked or completely missed.
And yes, I think giving credence to historically held positions is helpful to consider, but I don't take their thoughts as scripture because man's perspectives can change over time and they're not always accurate or correct. So it's helpful, but I don't stick to it if it doesn't line up.
Would it stand to reason, that if your reading / interpretation was the correct one, many former “elders” would have come to a similar conclusion and the historical record would reflect that? If not, how do you know if your reading is accurate / correct and not merely a product of the times?
I depend a great deal on the Holy Spirit’s leading (who leads us into all truth John 16:13) and the input from others (like you and those before us). It’s a dance between those voices. Sometimes my beliefs shift over time as I continue to wrestle through them, not always because I had something wrong before, but because my belief in one thing deepens over time, which influences how deeply I now believe something else.
Concerning the progression of scripture above toward the "one trajectory" as you put it... If, lets say, someone could demonstrate that zaqen at the city gate eventually became the Sanhedrin, would that cause you to question you assumption about trajectory? If the Holy Spirit has led folks before you concerning the meaning of the parable of the talents or what biblical fatherhood/ business ideals look like, and if your interpretation differs, why choose yours over theirs?
If there's consensus that I've erred, then I would submit to that, but overall, I can't speak for what the Holy Spirit is doing in others, whether that be today or hundreds of years ago. I can only follow His leading in my own life today the best I can. I've seen my own beliefs shift over time as He continues to work. I've seen that in you, too, which I respect. If we land at different places, is one of us wrong and the other right? I used to think it was as black and white as that, but now I see that the Spirit works in different people in different ways at different times. Maybe, in His timing, He'll bring me around to believe something that aligns more closely to what someone else already believes. Maybe I still currently believe something that He'll change in time (I hope so!). I think scripture is pretty clear on some essential non-negotiables, but there's a lot of other things in scripture that would take more than a lifetime to fully explore. I love learning from the people who have spent a lifetime exploring some of these things, but I still try to pay attention to what the Holy Spirit wants me to take away and wrestle with. Outside of the essential non-negotibles, it's more about wrestling with growth than it is about getting the correct answer and refusing to move from it.
Wondering if the Holy Spirit... leading "you" into all truth is you or ya'll. If it is Ya'll then perhaps having to wrestle every issue personally is like our kids having to figure out life without the help of their parents or community. If God gives us the Church, and the Holy Spirit has been leading her for all this time, maybe we can we can rely on her to help us know how to be men, husbands, and fathers. (and community leaders) Maybe we don't all have figure it out on our own like orphans, perpetually reinventing the wheel. I guess what I'm asking is why do you believe you have to figure this out yourself when you have 2k+ years of fathers /elders who've gone before you? Surely they left us some of their wisdom and what was revealed to them in their time?